Help in maual on Pre/post in audio effects

[arenson]

Hi all.

Well, i finally tested how aux effects work with the aux faders & pan plus
the specific track's aux add fader and pan. I was able to tell only that I THINK I like leaving the effect fader all the way up and centered, but i need to understand what is actually happeneing.

Thanks to Scoot it makes sense...

But i cannot find what I want--(whic is probably not Metro specific) here:
http://www.sagantech.biz/support/Met00598.htm

I want to know WHEN I would use POST and WHEN I would use PRE.

PRACTICAL USAGE
If I have a vocal and a guitar on two different tracks and the vocal is centered and the guitar is right. I would add reverb to the vocal and toi the guitar maybe, separately, but do not trust my own ears or have an overall sense of:

1) better to add reverb centered or to one side (opposite) for vocal.
2) better to add reverb to the opposite side for guitar
3) Whether to add using post or pre


(I understood when I have the main window fader all the way down, I only hear the effect when I am in the aux window when I choose PRE. Not post. or I can hear the effect in both PRE and POST when in the main windw the fader is up. But i do not understand the rationale behind it.

instead of asking questions based on incomplete understanding, I figure I would try to read uyp on it n the manual, but do not see it.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

[Jerm]

...or I can hear the effect in both PRE and POST when in the main windw the fader is up. But i do not understand the rationale behind it.

Sometimes you want the main fader tied to the effect send and sometimes you don't. If you plan on fading out the track entirely then you probably want the effect post-fader. If, on the other hand, you want the track's effect sends to be completely independent of the main fader, like in the case when you only want to hear only the wet signal, then you want the switch to be set to pre-fader.

As for your other question, I don't really have an answer. If you don't trust your ears then you should trust someone else's ears or get better headphones or studio monitors. The ears are the only thing you can trust, assuming you have a decent monitoring system. Try listening on multiple stereo systems.

[arenson]

Actually, Jerm, I am more or less pleased with what I am hearing, but just wonder if or HOW MUCH my understanding is flawed. I don't see a big description of how the faders and pans intereact, so i am just guessing.

Sometimes you want the main fader tied to the effect send and sometimes you don't. If you plan on fading out the track entirely then you probably want the effect post-fader. If, on the other hand, you want the track's effect sends to be completely independent of the main fader, like in the case when you only want to hear only the wet signal, then you want the switch to be set to pre-fader.

OK. I THINK for me POST Works. I have no reason to only hear the wet signal (I don't think).

It seems using the PRE would be usful in a live situation where I want the audence to get onething and the band to get the other.....Or so it seems.

As for your other question, I don't really have an answer. If you don't trust your ears then you should trust someone else's ears or get better headphones or studio monitors. The ears are the only thing you can trust, assuming you have a decent monitoring system. Try listening on multiple stereo systems.

Thanks...actually i am getting comfortable with hearing, but i guess a problem is I don't know what the EXPECTED result of the pans and faders is.....


Or, in other words, the reason for being able to adjust effect in Mixer (aux 1) via BOTH aux 1 fader/pan AND track fader/pan. It seems they do the same.


But let me explain how I did it...and see if this seems a reasonable way to approach it.


SETTINGS
OUT--> my recording-1 InSel 1
OUT--> my recording-2 Insel 2

I record voice on "my recording-1"
I record acoustic guitar on "my recording-2"

ADD EFFECTS

I add reverb to aux 1:


MIXER SETTINGS --MAIN
VOLUME: I adjust the volume for guitar voice and guitar to be comfortable.
PAN: Voice center
Guitar right

AUX-1
In Effects Synths I choose Medium Hall

NOW HERE IS WHERE I AM NOT SURE WHAT IS OPTIMUM OR NORMAL, BUT I WILL DESCRIBE WHAT I AM DOING

EFFECT/SYNTH (reverb)

Send: all the way up
Dry: all the way down (because it seems to be the same as the MAIN sound)
Wet: all the way up.

DOES THIS MAKE SENSE? It sounds ok. My reasoning is that I will be controlling the amount of effect via the track fader in Mixer (Aux 1) so I don't need any dry signal here.


MIXER (AUX)
SET FOR POST (as per above)

AUX ONE
Fader: All the way up
Pan: CENTER

My reasoning here is less assured. It seems I can control the amount of
effect and pan with the track fader and pan in aux 1. So I do not need to do so with the aux 1 fader and pan. Thus:


TRACK ONE/TRACK TWO
FADER: MID WAY UP TO CONTROL AMOUNT
OF REVERB ENTERING THE MIX. MORE FOR THE VOICE, LESS FOR THE GUITAR



TRACK ONE AND TWO PAN

VOICE:
Since main sound is center, I put the pan to the left to give it some breadth or depth or spaciousness,

GUITAR
With the second track (guitar), since the sound is originally right, I pan the track to the center to fill it out or broaden it also.

THIS SEEMS TO WORK, BUT I DON'T HAVE A SENSE OF WHY I CAN USE BOTH AUX 1 --and-- track fader/pan. I hear subtle variations, but it seems that EFFECt fader up and panned center is ok and that i use TRACK fader and pan to control amount of effect and positioning.


This works, but I would like to understand why I have the option of messing with both aux and track fader/pans in Aux 1 of Mixer.


Does what i do above, based on my sense of what SEEMS right seem good enough, or am I missing something. I mean I get get a sound that is ok, but just wonder why the double pan and double fader for effect AND TRACK in mixer (aux 1).

Thanks

paul


(PS I should add that i am FINALLY getting the hang of it, but i just don't find a clear explanation of this partin the manual or anyone asking this in the forum).